tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18297904.post116645660885284154..comments2023-09-11T09:07:38.474-05:00Comments on Sweet Jazzy Cat: Faith has Action....jazzycathttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16720471765591930568noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18297904.post-1167090243364663822006-12-25T17:44:00.000-06:002006-12-25T17:44:00.000-06:00Steve,Thanks and Merry Christmas to you.Steve,<BR/>Thanks and Merry Christmas to you.jazzycathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16720471765591930568noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18297904.post-1167018760975518612006-12-24T21:52:00.000-06:002006-12-24T21:52:00.000-06:00Merry Christmas!Merry Christmas!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18297904.post-1166888111396891972006-12-23T09:35:00.000-06:002006-12-23T09:35:00.000-06:00Thanks Jel, I hope you have a great Christmas up t...Thanks Jel, I hope you have a great Christmas up there in the Mo. countryside. Love your photo's.jazzycathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16720471765591930568noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18297904.post-1166883845782285832006-12-23T08:24:00.000-06:002006-12-23T08:24:00.000-06:00Hope you don't mind if I pop in here to wish you a...Hope you don't mind if I pop in here to wish you a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year!jelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09468151130326112121noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18297904.post-1166801389766621632006-12-22T09:29:00.000-06:002006-12-22T09:29:00.000-06:00Jodie,You said the following………… But Hodges and al...Jodie,<BR/>You said the following………… <STRONG>But Hodges and all the leading lights of whom I'm aware, believe that when one is regenerate there will be some fruit.</STRONG> <BR/><BR/>To me “some fruit” means some obedience and response to becoming a new creation in Christ (2 Cor. 5:17). Yet the following quote is from your website where you quoted directly from the Grace Evangelical Society website concerning beliefs: <BR/><BR/><STRONG>However, the Bible does not teach that this obedience will be manifested in all believers. If a believer does not yield to the ministry of the Holy Spirit in his experience, failure will result, evidenced by sinful acts or even prolonged disobedience (1 Cor 10:1-13; Gal 5:16-21).</STRONG><BR/><BR/>To me the first sentence is affirming that some believers will never be obedient which would mean no fruit. Then a verse (Gal. 5:21) is cited as referring to believers when it very clearly speaks of someone who will not inherit the kingdom of God. <BR/><BR/>Do you believe some fruit will result from the regenerate as you say Hodges does? If so this view that Hodges and others holds seems to be at odds with the GES position. It seems to me that the difference between some fruit and no fruit is a huge point of distinction in this debate. Did I miss something?<BR/><BR/>It does seem that the FG position has a lower view of the impact of grace through the Holy Spirit and a higher view of man's contribution in sanctification than the reformed view. I will post on grace next week. <BR/>Thanks. <BR/><BR/>W.H.jazzycathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16720471765591930568noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18297904.post-1166760135544849652006-12-21T22:02:00.000-06:002006-12-21T22:02:00.000-06:00I'll look forward to reading your posts. But beli...I'll look forward to reading your posts. But believe me, W.H., there is a huge amount of difference of opinion in grace circles. But Hodges and all the leading lights of whom I'm aware, believe that when one is regenerate there will be some fruit. At a practical level, that means new converts that don't shift gears in some way are supplied with more evangelism. <BR/><BR/>New birth is the life of Christ within a person. That miracle is always perfect and holy, and when it is expressed the person gains a sense of inner freedom. They feel like their authentic identity is thriving. that's what obeing the law of liberty is all about.<BR/><BR/>But people backslide, sometimes permanently. Kids are saved and don't continue to adequately grow. Anyone not under the acitve authority of God's Word is vulnerable to the life-destroying work that God has the devil accomplish in the life of those believers who turn from God. <BR/><BR/>Anyway...<BR/><BR/>God bless.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14129403607163332340noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18297904.post-1166745468809039692006-12-21T17:57:00.000-06:002006-12-21T17:57:00.000-06:00Jodie,I will respond to this post more thoroughly ...Jodie,<BR/>I will respond to this post more thoroughly later as I must be out for the evening. I am also going to do a post on “What the bible says about grace” right after Christmas that should serve as a response to your questions. I am somewhat puzzled by your comment that Hodges believes regenerate people will produce works. Seems like such a belief would be subject to all the criticism that is labeled at the reformed camp by the UOG group. I have debated Matthew’s who believes that in rare cases the regenerate can produce no works even with enough time of life to do something. There must be some differences of opinion in this area. <BR/><BR/>W.H.jazzycathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16720471765591930568noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18297904.post-1166722976074804072006-12-21T11:42:00.000-06:002006-12-21T11:42:00.000-06:00Hi Jazzy,To clarify, we do not say there will be n...Hi Jazzy,<BR/><BR/>To clarify, we do not say there will be no effect. Hodges has clarified that all regenerate people are going to have some works. Jonathan chooses not to process what we are saying. We are created for good works, just as Solomon was created for wisdom.<BR/><BR/>What we are saying is that it is possible to resist God's Spirit, even dramatically.<BR/><BR/>Jazzy, would you say that to know God is always static reality? Or do some know him more than others? Didn't Philip not know God when he became confused by what the Lord was saying early in the Upper Room Discourse. Jesus said, Do you not know me Philip? <BR/><BR/>People like Solomon at the end of His life did not know God! He had once, but in the end he didn't with his worshipping of every single regional pagan diety! (though he was regenerate) Hymenaeus didn't after he wandered away from the truth. (1 Tim 1:19,20; 2 Tim 2:18) Peter didn't when he denied the cross. Since you believe in the reality of people drifting it seems this shouldn't be completely far-fetched to you. Mull it over: does the backslider truly know God in every sense of the word?<BR/><BR/>Warmly in Christ,<BR/><BR/>JodieAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14129403607163332340noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18297904.post-1166612809454973932006-12-20T05:06:00.000-06:002006-12-20T05:06:00.000-06:00Jazzy, I admire how relentless you are! You inspir...Jazzy, I admire how relentless you are! You inspire me. Thank you.mark piersonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13882538938829765324noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18297904.post-1166537158218365362006-12-19T08:05:00.000-06:002006-12-19T08:05:00.000-06:00Jonathan,You are right. They deny the power of re...Jonathan,<BR/>You are right. They deny the power of regeneration, which is to deny his power. This is an insult.<BR/><BR/>Steve, <BR/>Thanksjazzycathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16720471765591930568noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18297904.post-1166505052115732162006-12-18T23:10:00.000-06:002006-12-18T23:10:00.000-06:00This is a tremendous post! Thanks. This needs to b...This is a tremendous post! Thanks. This needs to be said often, and far and wide.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18297904.post-1166491659129829302006-12-18T19:27:00.000-06:002006-12-18T19:27:00.000-06:00What does it say about God if we say no result cou...What does it say about God if we say no result could come of salvation, when Paul says that God creates <EM>for</EM> good works? I never cease to be amazed at the FG movement.Jonathan Moorheadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03687367307942260277noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18297904.post-1166457267210613212006-12-18T09:54:00.000-06:002006-12-18T09:54:00.000-06:00The faith to believe is a gift from God (Eph 2:8-9...The faith to believe is a gift from God (Eph 2:8-9) and is a result of God's grace that changes the sinners heart. The works that flow from this grace are from God just as surely as the grace and faith are from God. <BR/><BR/>Let me be clear that works do not justify nor are they mechanically done to prove justification. They occur because the new creation desires and wants to do them.jazzycathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16720471765591930568noreply@blogger.com